Israel-Palestine - Community Discussion

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

And we're live. What's up, everybody? It's been a while. Summer's been crazy. We've been getting in like one stream a month. Maybe it'll change now that summer's over. I already told you I'm not making promises, but that I will try. Um, we're gonna do a little roundtable discussion, and this is actually an exciting stream because this is the first stream we've ever done where we will be showcasing the head on.ai platform, which we've been working very hard to build and make live. Now, building companies and products is a challenge. You start with one vision, and every week it kind of changes. Um, because you kind of test you test what works, what doesn't work. You need to get user feedback and iterate. So we feel like we have a good direction. We're still a long way to go. We have still a lot of development work to do, but we have a stable platform in which we can host conversations that already has at least one feature that the other platforms don't have. And over the next few months, we're gonna be adding many more features. The idea is a platform for conversation optimized for making conversations productive. Um, so I will showcase that. By the way, what do y'all think of this little thing? Isn't this the cutest thing ever? Best 25 shekels I ever spent. It's like a squishy toy. Honestly, I have felt absolutely no stress since buying this thing. Like, my cortisol levels are at zero. It would honestly be a pretty good time to mug me because I'd have no fear response. I'd just let you take my money. What should we name this cutie pie? You could let me know in the comments what we should name it, but I like it. Anyways, on to some more serious matters. Um, okay, I see we have some community members joining. Welcome for those joining here on Discord. I'd prefer you join platform. That's where we're going to be bringing people on. So let me drop a link over here in Discord. I will drop a link on YouTube as well. Those on YouTube also let me know where you're tuning in from. Okay, uh, share screen. Welcome to head on. You could see it's uh well, let's actually go to the home page. You could see this is what's happening now. Israel-Palestine roundtable discussion. You can see who's in it. You can see recently ended conversations we've done. Here's the community, meaning your friends. I guess I should follow all these people. Following you, following. Yeah, you know, our early community members deserve the respect. So follow to all of you, anyways. Upcoming discussions, you could see our event calendar. This is messages, right? It has a lot of the features uh social media has. Uh, but going back to the room, one cool thing is you could add AI here and say, tell me what this conversation is about, right? Let's say you join halfway, you want to get caught up, so you just go boom. And uh AI is typing. This conversation is a round table discussion focused on digital Palestine. Participants are exploring the intricate issues involved, discussing the historical background and different perspective of Israelis and Palestinians. Current conversation snippet show mentions a pragmatic solution. Okay, well, this obviously needs to uh it's I mean, this is bullshitting a little bit, so okay. You see, we're still still some room for improvement, but it gave a very general um a general response, not the most related to the conversation. Now, granted, we didn't give it much to work with. I did not do a thumbs down, but I guess it's deserving of a thumbs down. Um we did not really give it much to work with, so it's kind of trying to produce something. Uh oh, and it did pick up. I said I mentioned before going live that Israel admitted to killing Hindra Jab. That was the nine-year-old girl that was shot dozens of times. Uh, many of the online propagandists were denying that it was Israel, saying it was Hamas doing it, based on no evidence whatsoever. Well, Israel's now admitted it and investigating it. Uh, so it did hear me say hind, and it now is uh it mentioned that. So it's somewhat accurate, but we did not, we're not yet discussing the historical background, so some room for improvement. And as as you join the platform, to all the community members and anybody, anybody new joining, let us know if there's uh if you find bugs, because there's always gonna be bugs and we're constantly working on it. Uh, we'd also love to hear ideas for features and whatnot.

unknown 5:31

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

I see we got a nice crew here. Um, raise raise your hand, we'll we'll bring you on stage. It's just gonna be a free-flowing discussion. We're gonna keep it respectful. We'd love to hear different perspectives. Um, so yeah. Uh ready, ready when you are community. In terms of um what else we want to have planned with this platform. You'll see if we open the stage, you'll soon be able to get stats and uh context briefing before the topic. That's kind of what the AI bot's doing now, but it'll be a more organized way of doing it. Stats is very cool. It tells you about the conversation, what's going on, where what are agreements, um, room temperature, like is it heated? Is it calm? And after every conversation, people will get reports on how the conversation went, how they did and what they can improve on. So it's not just built to optimize for productive conversation, it's also meant to help you improve your conversation skills. We've already been running our conversations uh through this system, and the feedback has been fascinating. So, for those who have been uh watching these streams for some time, I would say there's a pretty decent chance in the next few months I will improve my communication ability simply because for the first time I'm gonna be getting consistent feedback on it. Um, so hopefully, hopefully, I could up it a notch or two. Uh, what else do we have going on? Uh, Israel seems to be picking up steam in their attacks in Gaza. Uh, is this related to the Board of Peace plan to get Hamas to disarm, which BB's not super on board with because it will require withdrawal prior to full disarmament, not quite good before elections. Um unclear. But you know, Netanyahu needs to keep spilling blood to remain in power. Rest assured he will.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Um, I see there's a lot of questions. Oh, I did not realize how much.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Oh, wait, hold on. Never mind. This is from many from a while ago. Okay. I have multiple things open now, so it's uh okay, some questions coming in. So D Pin says I was just writing about Hinn. Do you think it was encourag it's encouraging news? Yeah, I mean, I think it's it's encouraging that Israel is investigating it. Um and took responsibility. I wonder what happened for this for this to happen. Generally, like Israel won't admit, and it's not just Israel, countries generally don't admit their war crimes or their mistakes unless they have to, right? Unless they're caught, unless they have no other choice. It could be connected to ICC pressure, though I'm not so sure. Because the ICC works in such a way that it doesn't, it won't investigate things itself if you yourself decide to investigate it. Um maybe new evidence came to light that couldn't be ignored. So, for example, this Dayteman um sexual violence case only came to light once a doctor who saw a patient with anal injury uh publicly spoke about it. They then had to investigate it. But, you know, we have from 18 different prisons across Israel where Palestinians are being held testimony of torture and abuse, and that's not really investigated because it's just Palestinians saying it. Um I wonder what is driving this investigation. Maybe we'll know more in the next few weeks. I actually didn't even read the article talking about the investigation, I just saw that it's new. Yf Kanan says, long time no see my based enemy. Good to see you too. See, it's it's it's nice. I don't even remember what what makes us enemies, but it's nice when enemies can get along, right? That that's who you're meant to make peace with, your enemy. Um not your friends. You already have peace with your friends. So, yeah, deep pen. I hope that answers your question. Shadow, good to see you here as well. Um, there people raising their hands and I'm just not seeing it, or no, I would see it. Okay, that feature's working. Okay. Normally people are eager to hop on. Uh, Shadow says, Imagine you're Palestinian looking to pragmatically compromise. Your goal is a state on 67 borders, no rate of return. You have a lot of political power and purchase with your people. Do you ask for two states on 67 borders or ask for autonomy on whatever part of the West Bank doesn't have settlements yet with veto power over any immigration, build institutions, and then try to renegotiate? Um, I think it's harder. I think it's harder to agree and then ask for more. Uh, if you already agree to borders where you have autonomy and then ask for more, it comes off as dishonest, um a form of trickery. And you given that autonomy is granted, given a signed agreement, it'll probably mention that this is also the final agreement. Uh, it's better to ask for more than what you think you can get and then come and then give up, make some compromise in order to you know find some reasonable solution. So I would go with the um the former solution, ask for the two states on 67 borders. Now, you still need to solve the problem, the fact that there's half a million Jews living uh beyond 67 borders. So, is this land swaps where most of the half a million are most of the half a million are concentrated into larger, larger blocks? So maybe that can come into Israeli territory there being some land swaps. I don't know what the exact number would be once you take in the three big blocks. It would probably be tens of thousands for sure, right? So, what do you do with them? And a lot of these tens of thousands are the most radical and very well may pick up arms before they leave. Though I don't know if they would want to live in a Palestinian state. You know, you could probably incentivize a fair bit of them to move into Israel proper, give them some kind of compensation. Um, and then whoever stays would just the new Palestinian government would need to ensure their protection and they would need to abide by Palestinian law, or they would need to deal with um Palestinian authorities. Uh, that's probably how it needed to be dealt with. Well, for the meantime, I'm gonna take this uh I'm gonna take the head on off until more people join, just so it's a better viewing experience for those watching. And as I mentioned, now that summer's over, my schedule is freeing up, so I'm gonna make an effort to uh um to do more streams, have some debates lined up as well. Let's see, popcorn says, keep it up, gentlemen, doing good work. Thank you so much, and glad you've joined our community. Link to, oh my god, I need to get it for my wife, or what is it called? Link to what? Oh, this squishy thing. Uh-huh. This this is like these things are in in Israel uh right now. A lot of the kids have them. I I just bought this at like a store that sells different home supplies, so but here, screenshot and then have AI find you this thing. There's different ones as well. Um and excuse me for like my I feel like I'm unmannered whenever I stream. There's something very weird about it, it only happens when I'm streaming. Literally, my I my nose starts getting itchy from cat fur. I have a cat, my nose never itches unless I'm streaming. And I I don't know if it's something with like the static of the computer, but it doesn't happen when I'm using my computer regularly. So does something about the stream what's what's happening? Can can some should we ask AI? Makes no sense. You have you're you're using much more upload speed when you're streaming. Would that create some like electromagnetic effects? Some static something? I don't know. We got some smart people in the community. Let me know what you think. We got a question from Joe Wilder. Is it true that Palestinian bloodline is to a great degree Israelite? Uh, I don't know if we can call it Israelite because that's harder to know, but uh their DNA to a large degree is uh Bronze Age Levant. So Levant being the region of Israel, Palestine, um, Jordan, Syria, part of Lebanon, that like that that area, right? Um, from the Bronze Age. So they have a significant amount of that DNA, more than any other population, aside from probably the Samaritans, right? The Samaritans uh are, in a sense, the most indigenous out of all people living on the land. They were ancient Israelites that never got kicked out and never converted. Everyone else either got kicked out or converted to Islam or Christianity. Uh so, but aside from them, Palestinians do have the most Bronze Age Levant DNA. Uh, they do share this DNA with pretty much all Jewish populations, or most Jewish populations as well, from uh Sephardic, Mizrahi, and uh Ashkenazi Jews all have it to a degree, but Palestinians have more of this Bronze Age Levant DNA. That's why the whole thing that Palestinians come from Arabia, it's just not connected to, well, it's not supported by DNA evidence. You could say that a lot of the culture uh came from Arab conquests from Arabia, sure. Um, but the people are are a mix of different populations that have lived here throughout the years, and a significant portion is Bronze Age. Levant. Shachaziv is saying psychosomatic. Is that to explain the nose itch? Psychosomatic means physical illness or symptoms caused or made worse by mental factors like stress, worry, or depression. You know, someone else suggested that, but these streams, I don't feel more stressed during these streams. Maybe if it's like a heated debate, but like I feel very much in my element when I'm just chit-chatting with the people, you know. So I'm open, I'm open to that uh being the case, but I don't feel any higher degree of stress, especially not with this little guy, you know.

SPEAKER_05 17:01

Woo woo.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

No cortisol whatsoever. But no, I mean it's an interesting theory as to what would make my nose itch. But I feel like I'm even when I'm sitting on my computer responding to emails, I would have a higher degree of stress than this because I hate responding to emails, and this I enjoy. Who knows? But I appreciate the thought, and yeah, we're still looking for a name for this guy, so happy to hear suggestions. Um you should just change the color of your filter. What filter? I'm not sure I understand. I'm not sure I understand, Azrael. Please elaborate. Um do you normally sit in that spot? Does the cat like the chair? I sit in the spot almost every day. The cat hops onto the chair when I'm here so I could pet her. Um yeah, I don't know. Like I'm resisting very strongly the urge to itch my nose because it's just improper conduct, but it's bad. It's bad. Umar, do you believe, Stryker asks, do you believe in the right of self-determination? And do you believe in that for all groups of people? Yeah, I think it's a pretty good uh value that should apply universally, that people have the right to self-determination. Um, I think there's a question of what is the ma minimum number of people needed in order to achieve self-determination, right? If like one person says, Well, I want the right to self-determination, so I don't abide by the law, that wouldn't work. It needs to be enough people that occupy a certain geographical location where they can uh build and maintain institutions on the geographical location that they are occupying. But yeah, generally speaking, I think it's great. Um now we should see that uh a universal value like that doesn't cause too much fragmentation and ultimately more fighting, right? There's a lot of benefit to the world being as unified as possible. Does smaller groups breaking off of the countries they're part of and making their own sovereign states or autonomous zones, would that lead to fragmentation and fighting? I'm not sure. I don't think so, not in today's world, but it's something we need to be conscious of and correct for if that does happen. I am going to uh turn the camera off for just one second so I can uh itch itch my nose aggressively, and then I will uh be back. Those on platform, uh your community, so whatever, but uh live stream.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Okay, we're back.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Yuri says it's some uh Pavlov stuff going on, perhaps. I don't know. Uh Stryker says thank you. I agree with your position, I think it's quite fair. Uh if Nigeria for Nigerians is okay, does that mean Europe for Europeans is also okay? What do you mean? Like, should Europeans get to decide uh their immigration policy? If that's what you're asking, certainly, right? This is one of the areas where I generally diverge from uh the left that they don't seem to have much of an issue with uncontrolled immigration, which isn't traditionally a left-wing value, because if you care about your workers, you want to be able to support them as much as possible, not bring in cheaper labor from elsewhere, right? Like mass mass immigration is bad for workers, uh, it often increases crime. So why why does that sound like a good policy? Yeah, people should have the right to decide who who enters. I think some level of immigration is beneficial to all societies, so I support it. But when it's when the amount of immigrants coming in uh are not uh integrating well and b are increasing crime rates, and C are potentially harming workers, then it's just not a good policy. And I think Europe is struggling with this currently, and it's something that they should work to find a solution to. I'm certainly not in the re immigrate re migration camp where they want to round people up and kick them out, unless it's for criminals. Um, but even that, if they're already citizens, if you have a policy where you kick out citizens who come from another place, but you Have another punishment for citizens born there, then it's an unequal system. That's probably not the best solution. You should have equal punishment, but you just need to punish criminals and then work to rehabilitate them if that's possible. But those who are on some kind of a visa or working permit, whatever it may be, and they're not law-abiding, you know, get rid of them for sure. But rounding up like people who are contributing to society because they're from a different place, you know, that's just cruel, uncruel and unusual punishment. You know, it's it's just unnecessary. Um so yeah, if that's what you were asking, that's what I would say about uh immigration policy. Let the people decide who immigrates into their land, and uh immigration, some amount of immigration is good, but if it's uh if it's just uh uncontrolled and mass and not in integrated well, then it it's net negative for for everybody. So uh yeah. And by the way, this is something, you know, one of the reasons why Palestinians have had a grievance with Zionism for a long time is that's what's that's how Zionism started. It was mass migration of Europeans into Palestinian land. It was people of a different culture, religion, who spoke a different language, who looked and dressed differently. Why would any people be okay with that? You know, it was rejected. Um the same grievance that Palestinians had with Jews in the early days of Zionism is a very similar grievance to what many Europeans have with immigration from the Middle East and North Africa, and it's the same reason why Jews, Jewish Israelis are terrified of right of return. It's it's all touching on something similar. Papi Chulo says, Hey, how are you? My headphones are not working, so you could reply to me in chat. Yeah, sure, just submit a question in chat, happy to. Um yeah, no problem. Um D Pen says they think the world GDP doubles if all borders open. Who thinks that? Is that like a real political philosophy a few people hold? Perhaps. So does anybody want to hop on? Are we gonna do this a round table? Because now it's just uh just a man sitting in a chair, you know? You know, D Penny, your your response would have been better if you put uh they in a triple parentheses on each side. I would have understood what you're talking about. Oh, we have Maxim here who's who's big on uh re reimmigration. Is that what you guys call it? Reimigration. What else do we have here in chat? There we go, sub zero. That's the kind of conduct I'm looking for. Remigration is okay. That's it. Um cool. Imagination scene, good to see you here. You know about the writer Bhatia Orr and her starting the Eurobia conspiracy theory or popularizing that. No. Um let's look. Should we look it up? Eurabia conspiracy theory. You know what? Let's actually try to. I wonder, I don't know if this will work good enough yet, but let's actually, I'm gonna add the head head on back to stage, and I'm gonna ask the AI if it can tell us about it. This might not work, right? AI. The Arabia, oh yeah, the Aurabia conspiracy theory is a political concept that proposes Europe will get dominated by Islam and Muslims due to immigration, high birth race, and the alleged collaboration of European politicians. It suggests a future where Muslim influence will overcome Western culture and values, leading to significant demographic and cultural shifts. This theory is widely criticized and debunked by experts as being based on unfounded claims and fear-mongering, often tied to Islamophobic and xenophobic sentiments. I mean, I it's that's I mean, that's definitely possible that it happens if you continue having mass mass immigration from Muslim countries and they have a higher birth rate. But it's definitely that the numbers are not nowhere near as high as people think they are, right? Many people in Israel think that Europe has been overrun. And I heard somebody the other day say that uh France is is uh 30% Muslim, and it's it's like 8% or something. Um but I I I don't think I'm not sure that's a conspiracy theory. I think it's uh it's something that could happen if immigration isn't uh controlled. Right. I mean, think about it. You have uh Europe population. Right, so you have almost two two Muslims for every European you have, although that's not quite true because of some amount of these uh some amount of you have some Muslim majority countries in uh in Europe like Albania and uh Bosnia. Is Bosnia a country? I always forget that those ball those ball Balkan countries confuse me. What is it? Kosovo is not a country, yeah. But uh Bosnia, Bosnia is, and Albania are a Muslim majority, North Macedonia, maybe. I don't know. I'm I'm not a Balkan expert, but um the trajectories in that direction. I'm just not convinced it's gonna happen. I I don't think there's ever been a population in history that has uh been overrun by voluntary immigration. Like, has that ever happened? There seems to be some kind of a self-defense mechanism to stop that from happening, but who knows? Who knows? I mean, I I know uh I know Maxim, you you you you probably you know believe that it's uh it's it's well here's the thing. The only way to stop it is if you actually believe that it's a real threat, right? If you don't believe it's a threat, then it could happen. And then once it starts becoming a threat, then people uh essentially rise up against against it happening. Uh that defense mechanism generally kicks in before it's too late. Uh that would be my sense. And I think that's probably what we're seeing. Just hope that whatever policy change happens, it doesn't create tension between ties between Muslim and non-Muslims, Europeans living, you know, living together. Hopefully, their ties uh not only stay good, but also improve over time. Um Maxim saying, never heard of Euravia, but that's what's described by AI as just reality. And then Maxim uh Yuri is sharing a thing. What is this? Muslims and UE Norway and Switzerland in 2050. High migration scenario. So this is this is if if migration stays very high as it is by 2050. Yeah, but so even this, right? This is if it stays high in the next 34 years, which I don't think it will, Spain will be at 7%, France at 18%, Germany at 20%, Sweden at 30%. You know, um, this is if it remains high. If not, I think you have a reasonable population that can easily be integrated. And uh yeah. And it's not, it's not uh to be clear, at least my take on it, it's not an issue with Muslims. It's any any culture that's vastly different and uh the country doesn't have and doesn't assimilate well, that should be concern of the local population, right? So for example, let's just take something random. If if a bunch of if it uh maybe you could even say this for Texas, you have a bunch of liberals moving to Texas, uh they're changing they're turning the state blue, right? They're these are all Americans, but they're very different politically. It's legitimate for for conservative Texans to not want mass immigration of liberals moving into their state, changing the policy, uh voting in left-wing politicians and changing policy, right? So you you could see this happen uh between many different groups if the groups are different enough. Um, so it's not it's not only an issue with Muslim immigration, it could happen with any immigration, it they just need to be different enough.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Um let's see.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

Why why is that? Because they're anti-Israel and you think they deserve punishment? Is that it? Um Bosnia is complicated, it's made up of Republica Srpuska and Bosnia Herzovina. Yeah, the Balkans are confusing. Uh um it's it's one of the least you have a few pockets of the world where like no one talks about those places, right? Like North North Macedonia. Whoever talks about North Macedonia um or Montenegro. What does the word Montenegro mean? Something black. Monte. Black mountain? Is that right? Sounds like it would mean black mountain. Um the extremist quoted her. Have you seen integration or assimilation being accomplished at the moment? Well, the one country that's done it exceptionally well is the United States. The U.S. is very good at assimilating people. It's a country of immigrants, all who are American. Um now, we're dealing with smaller numbers there, right? It's not and and the the the actual the population that actually has is maybe assimilating the most poorly are um immigrants coming in from Latin American countries, and maybe it just has to do with the amounts, right? Uh because m Muslims in America are around 1%, they're assimilated well. They're more liberal than uh Christian. Like the I I saw data the other day, something like 90% of Muslim Americans support uh secular secular government. So people say, oh, they're bringing sharia, but 90% support secular government. And then amongst evangelicals, it's like 60% support Christian government. So the the population that wants to change the constitution and create a religious government is not Muslim Americans, it's evangelicals. Uh but the the number of Latin Americans, and so it probably has to do with amounts, right? So Latin Americans are maybe like 20% of the country now, and they're often concentrated into the same neighborhoods, and a lot of them don't speak English, and they're not assimilated as well. So that is something the US needs to uh needs to find a solution to. Um because diversity works if we all have some kind of shared value or shared identity. Um we see it happen everywhere, you know. The Galilee has has nice diversity up here, very different populations living together in peace. Um, although what it I don't even know what our shared identity up here is, it's just mountain folks are nice, I guess. Um, I don't mind it, right? I lived in LA for a few years. It's LA's very very Latino and it adds flavor to the city, you know. Um but I do understand, you know, white white Americans are gonna be a minority. That's uh it it gives you an anxiety that all people face when they are facing demographic uh what do we call demographic switch? There's a word for it. I can't I can't remember what it is. When you flip from being a majority to a minority. Um, let's see. English are lovely people, must also be a racist generalization. Then Muslim to Christian nation doesn't work out well for either party, but there could be Muslims to Muslim countries, like three million Syrian refugees now in Turkey, could be integrated over time. I'm not convinced, Yuri. I think uh I I I am we see examples of of Muslims uh integrating well into different uh different countries. There's there's this one uh YouTube channel I like. It's called Brady Your Tutor. Let's actually watch, let's watch one because um he he does trivia. He does like trivia competitions, and he recently they're mainly in U US college campuses, but he recently did a tour to different uh different British uh universities, or at least one. He has a bunch of content uh where he's talking to medical students, and they're all Indian, but they're so British. Like that there's the they're as British as anybody I've seen. So aside from their skin color, but that's not how you determine if somebody's British, at least in my opinion. So this kind of gave me belief that it's possible and that a lot of the brown people in UK are actually assimilated quite well. I I'm not I'm not discounting the concern because I do I certainly understand it, but I think this is a pretty good example. Um, okay, how do I share this to multiple places? Um those on Discord, you're gonna need to come to platform to see this. Share screen, grade your tutor, share. And then we want to do this also on the head on platform share. We're seeing it both. Cool. Cool. Okay, there we go.

SPEAKER_06 38:58

Don't what is this? No. What is the third most that's not what I clicked on? Don't say the same thing as me. What the fuck? Yasha, the letter A.

SPEAKER_08 39:15

Oh me? Okay, I'm a peace ya.

SPEAKER_07 39:19

Brain.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Cerebro cortex. They're literally making them hold on, there's a better one. Clue number one, a 42-year-old female in her They're literally quizzing these medical students, giving them hints as to what it could be, and they need to give the diagonal.

SPEAKER_06 39:34

Chief complaint is that she has chronic fatigue and tension headaches for months. Okay. Like even I had heard of the diagnosis. Okay, I mean, yeah, I mean, chronic fatigue makes you think. I mean, it's a is it like this is an exclusion? Yeah, but I will say uh fibromyalgia.

SPEAKER_07 39:50

Alright. I am gonna go with chronic deficiency anemia. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

I'm gonna go with chronic fatigue syndrome.

SPEAKER_07 39:58

Okay. So fibromalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome is what I was thinking, but to switch things up, I'll say B12 deficiency. No.

SPEAKER_06 40:06

Alright, clue number two. The symptoms have been ongoing for eight years. And um she's minimized it as just stress.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Anyways, you get the point. They're British, you know. I'm sorry, these people are British. Are they representative of all of all immigrants? No, but you do see many examples of these. So I have faith. Maxim, are you not convinced by that? Uh what was the migration map posted? Uh, Yuri, can you send a link to the map? Someone's asking for it.

unknown 40:46

Mr.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Azrael says Latin Americans tend to assimilate very well in the U.S., probably the best actually. So I'm what are what are you uh I think they're one of the populations that are least likely to actually speak English, right? So you'll have neighborhoods in the U.S. where if you don't know Spanish, it's gonna be hard to get by. That doesn't exist in any other immigrant uh population center in the U.S. So I'm wondering what you're referring to. Uh it's it's white. Uh can Ador, can you stop using AI? Bro, I'm not I'm not planning on getting left in the Stone Ages. What do you mean? You mean to do the thumbnail for this? Like the the AI generated graphic? You don't like it? I I hate I hate doing graphics and I'm not good at it. If you look at the graphics on this channel before AI, they were very mid. Now they're, I think, pretty top-notch. But what don't you like about it? Just that you could tell it's AI generated? I get it, but that's gonna be the norm. That's already the norm, and it's just gonna continue to be the norm. And if you mean using AI to research stuff, I mean it's one of the fastest ways to research stuff. You just need to make sure it's not hallucinating. So it's great at finding finding quick information, uh, but you should look at the sources it provides to make sure it's legit. Um I'm gonna drop somebody asked for the oh you're saying because it hurts the planet. Uh I don't know. I'm not convinced by that argument. What, because what water usage for for data centers. I I think I I don't I don't think we're gonna I don't think we're gonna have a water crisis. I I I do think we need to um care for the planet without a doubt. But most most of uh environmental destruction is coming from large industries like uh factory farming and other uh large corporations. It's not consumer use of stuff. Uh and I I do I do agree we need to we need to reduce environmental damage, uh reduce deforestation, stop, you know, find ways to not be using so much plastic, uh, reduce carbon emissions, but I don't think we're gonna run out of fresh water. We're gonna get very good, you know. We already have great desalination um means uh which desalination is interesting. So the I I might be engaging in pseudoscience, so feel free to uh push back on this. It's a theory, but you actually have two challenges. Desalination turns salt water into freshwater, great. Uh, because there's a shit ton of salt water. Um but the problem is if you desalinate too much, you it increases the salt, the amount of salt in the water, which is bad for the ecosystems. But You're as you're removing fresh water from the ocean, you actually have the ice caps are melting, adding all this new fresh water. So, my theory, which I acknowledge might you know, might be pseudoscience. There's might be creating some equilibrium. Ice caps melting, fresh water going to the oceans, yet we desalinate a bunch of it, and then we have fresh water for the planet, including data centers. Feel free to push back, but um yeah, Maxim, you want to come on? Yeah, hold on. Bringing you on. Good, good, good. Um hold on one second. Let me just I want to focus on what you're gonna say. I just want to send a link in chat that somebody asked for.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Okay, that's the link to the migration map.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

Cool. Uh Maxim, what's up, man? Yep. Well, about migration about migration anywhere, you know.

SPEAKER_05 45:27

I think Britain's uh unique. It's I guess it's the same as like France because we had a global empire. It's a bit different to like Poland or something, right? It's a lot more understandable. Well, I I I post in uh chat, I'll just read it. But uh basically it's it's so in Britain, the Indian and Caribbean migrants who came over in the 50s and 60s are actually really mostly some of them uh not, but on the whole, it's like very well integrated. It kind of feels like they're as British as they can be. Um and you know, you had like the skinhead gangs and the what we're called the the packy bashes, like in the 60s and 70s, all the way through to like the 90s, there was still kind of um violence against blacks and uh foreigners in general. But at this point, it's I really believe that without the the mass immigration that's happened since Tony Blair, um this would be such a better country. Not because uh well yeah, partly because there'd be a lot less people in it. Had like 20 million people move to the country, but the uh the integration of the people who did come earlier would be far better than it is now because there were a lot less of them. They wanted to be here because they appreciated our culture, they wanted to become part of our nation. Uh uh, but now there's so many people from all across the world that it's very self-segregated. Like I noticed I was in Norway last week, and there's there's uh there's a decent amount of uh foreigners there, but they're they it feels like they're much better integrated than they are in UK. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

I mean, I I I I hear that a lot of it comes really does come down to integration and just what does the data show, right? Uh any any immigration policy that is increasing crime is a bad immigration policy, right? Like that's one of the single easiest metrics to to judge is this immigration policy working or not. Um, and I so I think based on that metric, it's it's certainly not an optimal immigration policy.

SPEAKER_05 47:42

Yeah, it's been terrible. We're fucked.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

It almost makes sense to stop it almost entirely and work with the existing populations living in there to really you know integrate them well, build cohesion, and then decide moving forward what makes sense for for future immigration.

SPEAKER_05 48:00

Yeah, I mean, obviously we have to just put a total uh pause on large numbers of people coming to the country. But we like you said you're uh you know you're against my re-migration, but it just has to be done. Like a lot of these people who live here now, they there is nothing you can do to uh motivate them to integrate. They they hate our way of life, they hate our culture, they hate us. Whether it's like a racial or a religious or like historical grievances, there's just like a a lot of um malicious intention in a lot of the people who've come here. We just we just can't have that. Why why would we accept that? Just because there was terrible government policy, traitorous government policy for the last 30 years or so.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

But how how would you decide who you who you send home?

SPEAKER_05 48:59

So the the first wave would be easy. It's criminals, people who are on benefits, and uh illegals.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Okay, I mean illegals is easy, right? I think no disagreement there. You're not in the country legally. Right. I could agree with you on that.

SPEAKER_05 49:17

But if you're legal and you commit a crime, I think that should be uh uh even if like it's like littering, it's we've got this uh pandemic epidemic now of uh mass um what do you call it, like dumping trash in like rivers and nature areas, which uh we didn't have before. But you know, you bring in people who just don't respect our our country, our our land. And they do it in their own land anyway. So yeah, uh criminals as well. Whether you're legal or illegal doesn't matter. Um, if you committed a crime, if you're a net drain on the taxpayer, why are you here?

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Why why are a lot of the people there legally, but they're not citizens?

SPEAKER_05 50:00

Or is everyone so we have this thing called leave to remain, but it's pretty easy to get citizenship. Like, I think you just need to wait seven years or so, five years.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Okay. There seems to be some amount of edge cases that re-migration is not even that uh controversial. Uh I I'm I I don't I don't think I disagree with you on that. If if you're illegal or if you're committing crime, you're making the country worse. Why should you have the right to stay? Why would any population want that? Like that, that you know, often we use the term suicidal empathy just to describe empathy. They say, oh, uh it's okay, it's okay to blow up children. And if you disagree, that's suicide empathy. No, no, because you could not blow up children and you're not committing suicide. But to have, you know, mass immigration of people who are not integrating well and are increasing crime rates, bad for the economy, whatever it may be, that I think is a pretty good use of the term. Because the only justification for not stopping it is because it's mean, right? So that's the only reason to not do it. Um, I I can get behind that.

SPEAKER_05 51:12

Yeah, I mean it's common sense, right? It's like why why would we, you know, we we've created this uh super system called the United Kingdom. Uh and its purpose is to protect us, to look after us, to improve our lives, to enrich us. Why would why would we turn the system's resources towards something which is malignant to our existence? Like it's so nonsensical, it's so absurd that it's also anti-worker.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

It's it's it's anti-left in many ways. So it's an it's interesting to be. Yeah, it's terrible for like you mentioned earlier, like for it's the cat the capitalists would want uh cheap labor coming in, right? That it's it's the capitalist wet dream to have labor coming in that you can pay as little as possible. The the left traditionally would want to pay high high wages to the workers, yeah. Fair.

SPEAKER_05 52:05

Yeah, it's it's a globalist capitalist thing for for mass immigration. Like uh it wasn't the left who started mass immigration, although now they they champion it. You know, it's Tony Blair. It was the Jews, Boris Johnson. It was of course, it was the collegiate plan.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 52:21

Um but no, it exactly as you say, it's it's a right wing, not right wing, uh a capitalist, globalist, uh corporatist uh venture to push mass immigration. Because it's terrible for the natives, especially the working class.

SPEAKER_02 52:38

Yeah. Okay. I I I hear you, and I'm I'm sympathetic to your cause. So I hope it's uh I hope there's a reasonable solution found soon. And for those new here who don't know my sense of humor, me saying it was the Jews I'm uh I'm joshing. Okay. Jews are probably overrepresented in that as well, but we're overrepresented in almost everything except for sports um and violent crime, but we are overrepresented in other forms of crime. So um cool. I want to move this back to Israel-Palestine just because it's the topic. But thanks for hopping on, Maxim. You're welcome to stick around, but I'm gonna take some questions. Israel-Palestine.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

I'll hop off the stage.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Cool, great chatting. Oh, and Maxim, I want to talk to you about open front because you kind of got me on it. It's a fun game, but there's some fundamentals that I think I'm still missing. Um so we'll talk about it at some point. Okay, let's see. Wait, Atreus, so what exactly is your position? You're saying they want to move there, so they should be able to move there. So your position is you just support open borders? You think anybody who wants to immigrate should be able to? Is that your position? I know it's not your position. I know that you have a grievance with Spain because they're anti-Israel, but you know, I want you to actually defend this on rational grounds. Uh Smith says the UK was built off plundering and illegally invading much of the world, and now they want to cry when illegals come to their country. Interesting. Well, Smith, I mean, look, if we could acknowledge that colonization was wrong, uh then this idea that now the their children deserve it, like that's also wrong. Right? If one's wrong, so is this. So uh British, British people who have British people alive today had nothing to do with the colonization, right? They didn't colonize any any other country. They were born in a country, they want to live good lives just like anybody else. Uh, it's a very legitimate grievance to have. Just because their ancestors did something horrific, it does not mean they deserve punishment, right? Uh, guilt is not generational. It's a very dangerous concept to think it's uh it should pass down like that. Somebody asked me death toll. Um by the way, can you tell me how I pronounced your name? Because I like to address you by name, but your literal YouTube handle is it's yt 5192. So let's let's give you a nickname. I'll just call you it's for now on, but I feel like there's something better to call you. Updated estimate on the Gaza death toll. Um yeah, so the we we have some new information, a because we've had enough time to see the rate at which bodies are under uncovered from rubble. So thankfully, right? Whenever I put out an estimate the past few years, and anybody who didn't do this shouldn't have really been trusted, but I always presented a range, right? A lower range and a higher range. The need for the higher range is because it's just impossible to know who's unaccounted for. Um, you know, you when you see when you when you see the visuals, the aerial footage of just how much destruction there is in Gaza, you wonder how much of the death can be accounted for. So in order to be fair, you create an upper range, and it's hard to know what to estimate that upper range to be. This has always been the hardest part of the analysis. What is the maximum upper range? I put it at around, I I think at around including indirect death, something like 20,000, 30,000 unaccounted for. And then the lower range is pretty much based on the data we have. So thankfully, we're now seeing that it's closer to the lower range, right? We've uncovered, I need to check the exact number, but something like a thousand from the rubble since the ceasefire. Now, Israel is in control of around 60% of Gaza, so there's been no uncovery in those areas. So there's plausibly thousands more not accounted for, but I don't think we should assume it's it's tens of thousands. So thankfully, the the higher end estimate that I put out is almost certainly not relevant. It's closer to the lower, lower end. Now, what hasn't really changed is the ratio um and rates of women and children being killed. This is pretty much exactly the same. Uh, the civilian to combat ratio is in the five to one range. The rate of women and children killed is is the highest in the 21st century uh by far. Uh, but the total amount is less than what uh many of us feared. So that is good. Uh PIJ obituaries is also interesting because we weren't sure to what extent combatants are being included in the data. We didn't know if they're intentionally omitting them, but 85% or 90% of PIJ obituaries are on the list. So we can also know that most of the dead combatants are actually on the list, which also tells us that there's no world in which 25,000 combatants have been killed, or very, very unlikely because there's not that many excess, there's not enough excess males on the list for there to be 25,000 combatants. And we know from the obituaries that most combatants seem to be on the list. Uh, so we do we do have a clear picture. I'm gonna wait a little bit longer. I know I've been saying I'm gonna do a final analysis, but uh I just I want to do the final analysis when you have as much data as possible. And I even think I'm gonna work, uh I'll try to do something peer-reviewed that gets published in a science journal. Uh, because there's still people running with all this bullshit misinformation of like two to one civilian-to-combatant ratio and all these just easily disprovable claims. But I will try to find some statistician at some university to review the work, uh, maybe multiple statisticians to review the work and then publish it in a science journal. I think that's that's the plan. And then obviously I'll do a live stream breaking it all down, but I'm gonna wait uh a little bit longer so we have an even clearer picture. Imagination says, didn't let me post the P word. Maybe connection, or maybe because it's slur, also littering you. Remigrate someone for that. That sounds pretty crazy. Yeah, I would agree littering is is uh there should be a fine, right? Like maybe they should need to pay money for littering. Like that's something that's that's culture that you can easily teach people. It should be strongly frowned upon. Fine. Um, but violent crime, sexual violence, you know, I don't think there should be tolerance for that. Imagination says you can't plunder a country and then leave it without accountability, in my opinion. I, you know, I would say that's fair as well. I I think if if there should be um it's perfectly okay for there to be uh you know, England to support India in one way or another, pay reparations, right? I think reparations for colonialism is actually super okay. Uh that's legitimate. But taking immigrants from those countries, it's unclear that that helps those countries. Often you're just that you're doing brain drain, right? Sometimes you you like the ones we're often inclined to take in are the smartest ones. Are they necessarily sending money back home or are you just taking their their most talented people? Right. So I do agree there should be some kind of reparations for colonialism. That makes sense. It just doesn't make uh just doesn't seem like open borders is the way. Um so imagination sees there's already a fine for littering. Well, if there's a fine for littering, but there's still rivers are now there's a lot of trash, then it just needs to be enforced more, right? So maybe the solution is for there, you don't need to change the law, you just need better enforcement, right? You need more police, or you need, I don't know, maybe cameras near these rivers, some some way to uh enforce it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

Let's see.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Um says Jews dominated NBA before black people were allowed to play? Is that true? Altwards is saying Spain needs to be uh dismantled. Uh is this still um is this a grievance from uh from Inquisition times? Like what's what's going on? Divided between Catalonia Castile Basque, etc. If the people will it then let them do that. I know Catalonia is working for independence, I I support that. Um it would be a strategic vote just based on uh who I think would need need the vote. So most likely it would be uh Yir Golan, the Democrats, to strengthen their minority, minority. But the Arab Party is just unified, so I want to see what their polling numbers are. They might need support. And then there's the Standing Together Party, which is my favorite party, but I don't know if they're relevant to pass the threshold to be a legitimate party. But so, for example, if I see that they're near the threshold, then I would vote for them because I would want them to pass the threshold, right? So it it's a strategic vote based on um based on how the polling's looking. The party that I'm most aligned with would be the standing together party, uh, without a doubt. So imagination said I worked I worked in neighborhood groups in England getting cameras up, a lot of red tape and pushback from councils. That's more of a funding issue. So you're saying there's a funding issue for more cameras. Okay, well, that should be solved, resolved somehow. Are you still working on an updated analysis on the Gaza Death tall? Yeah, I just spoke about this like five minutes ago. So I would go back a few minutes just so I'm not repeating it. But we have I'm gonna we're getting more interesting information. Uh nothing in the analysis has fundamentally changed, but we're we're we have gotten more information the past few months. But in the next few months we'll get even more, and I'm gonna wait until we have a clearer picture and I will do a final analysis and I'll try to get it published even in a science journal and get it peer-reviewed. That would be the goal. Is Standing Together the Air Party? It's uh Jewish, it's a Jewish Palestinian party. Uh it's done by uh Rula. I'm gonna botch her last name is a Jabriel. Uh and a lonely green. Wait, is that her name or is that a different Rula? I might be embarrassing myself publicly. Yeah, yeah, okay, I was right. A lonely green and Rilla Jabriel, and they founded together, Standing Together, and now a new political party, um, Makomlik Kulanu, which in Hebrew means a place for us all. So that's the party that I feel most aligned with. Um wait. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, you're right. I I read that too quickly. Rula Rula Daud. Rula Jabriel is a different foreign policy analyst, so I did publicly embarrass myself. Thank you, Shaha. You're consistently more informed about Israeli domestic politics than myself, so I appreciate the constant corrections. Rula Daud and a lonely green. The other ruler hates Israel. Hard not to these days, huh? Hi Dar, hope you're doing well. Thanks, Anthony. How was your session yesterday? Yuri's sending me this thing when basketball was Jewish. All right, let's ask our AI here. Fascinating. You learn something new every day. Um, at AI was basketball Jewish. It's a funny way to ask it, but um The idea that basketball was Jewish is like you're referring to a historical period when Jewish players and coaches had significant presence in the sport basically in the early 20th century. Jewish athletes were indeed prominent in American basketball during the 1920s and 1930s, before the racial integration of the sport, which led to more diverse participation. This was a result of Jewish immigrants and their descendants seeking upward mobility and new opportunities in America, places where they could excel and find success. Every basketball is a sport itself and is not tied to any particular religion or ethnicity. It has grown to be a global game and played, enjoyed by people from all backgrounds. Well, I you see, so the gentrification is happening both ways. They pushed us out of uh basketball and we pushed them out of neighborhoods. A little justice, huh? But um Jews and blacks actually historically have a pretty good relationship, right? Jews were overrepresented in the in the American civil rights movement. Uh we were some of the biggest advocates for ending Jim Crow. But then we have had certainly uh there were the what were those riots called? Uh that Al Sharpton, no, Jesse. So racist of me to get these guys confused. Jesse Jackson? Yeah, Jesse Jackson uh instigated. What happened? A Hasidic Jew hit a black kid in his car, and Jesse Jackson used inflammatory language, and then there were riots in New York. The Crown Height riots. Thank you. Uh thank you, Altoids. Yeah, okay, we're gonna uh bring some people on. Altoids and Anthony bringing you both on.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:47

Hey, what's up, Adar?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:48

Hey, hey, I'm reading one more comment. Hi. Um can you hear me? I'd vote, Shafu says I'd vote for them too, but not at the risk of not passing the 3.25 barrier. Yeah, so I would want to see their polling. It doesn't look like they'll get there, but you know, we have a few months. So Serg says uh Jews were also heavily involved in ending apartheid. Yeah, yeah. Jews, Jews for most of history have been overrepresented in fighting for uh for uh moral progress. It's actually one of my grievances with what Zionism has done to Jews because today we're overrepresenting, uh overrepresented in uh moral regression. Uh like undoubtedly, how you know how the ICC is being attacked primarily because the ICC is coming against Israel, how we're primarily because the SEC is a fake organization that shouldn't exist in the first place, and international diplomacy has been hijacked to support weaker countries and destroy stronger countries. You see, thank you for thank you for proving my point. The only reason you actually believe that is because the ICC has gone against Israel. That's not true at all, actually. Okay, so I have always opposed it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

So are you against international law? I opposed it when they put the the thing on Putin in 2022. I thought it was a big bad precedent. But are you against international law? I am, yes. I don't believe it to be a real system that should exist because again, it can be used in very biased ways, like we have seen it be used in that way already twice against Russia and Israel and America.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:30

No, no, so why do you think why why do you think it's biased and how it was used against Israel, though?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Is you for well, I'm going to know just you because Israel's not just the example I'm I'm talking about. I want to use a couple of samples.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:44

No, no, first of all. I want to know why you think Israel. Uh, because that's a case I'm familiar with.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

So why do you think it's well you asked me for the international law, what my opinion is, it's not just based on Israel.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

So you're saying uh I I I didn't really look into the Russia case. They were taking children. It it actually they were taking Ukrainian refugee children, and that was considered uh is that what it was?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

They were taking children from the war zone areas and they were taking them to Russia.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:13

Okay, I need to look into that case.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:16

Um, but but the reason why I think that specific case is um exploiting Russia, for instance, is because the kids didn't have parents with them at the moment. They were like basically orphans within Ukraine, and they took them to Russia outside of the Ukrainian territory, occupied territory, because they were not going to be in a war zone, obviously. And you could argue okay, they're refugees, they're going to return them back when the war is over, or any of these arguments, but then the America specifically, we the West, uh jumped the gun, I think, and we immediately start accusing them of stealing the children just because it was politically convenient to accuse Russia of that at the moment. At face value, what you're saying. Many of the children have a return, by the way. Many of the truth has been returned.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

At face value, what you're saying sounds like a legitimate criticism. So I haven't looked into that. Fair. But I I want to say that international law and how it's applied not being perfect does not mean that we should not have international law. It means we should just try to build and improve on it, right? Also, international laws based on one moral system. So, just for example, like Israel did things in Gaza that are so atrocious. If they're not illegal, then we need they should be illegal, right? It's very clearly immoral actions that there should be some system in place to stop that from happening. And if you can't stop it from happening, happening, at the very least, punish people doing it. Like, why is that bad? And in fact, international law, if we had it historically, the world would have been a safer place for Jews. It's good that we have international law. Is it perfect? No. Can it should it be improved and built on? Certainly, but getting rid of it, uh, unless you have a better alternative.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:12

Well, the issue there, there's another issue. There are many, again, there are many criticisms of international law. International law destroys sovereignty, and that's actually the root of the problem, I think, for people who are more nationalist on the nationalistic side, because the elimination of sovereignty destroys the capacity for a nation or another, like two nations, to determine what is the law within their territory. Because if you can force a country based on some foreign ideological or morality system that's from a different country, a different culture, this different different civilization, and you can force that into a different civilization, then you can basically exploit that to either make a country a pa a pariah or make a or block a country from uh doing diplomacy with other countries. Or you can destroy the sovereignty of that country.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:05

So it would be immoral to try to stop the Holocaust because that is the values of the German people at the time. Is that your position? The Holocaust can be stopped through war. That's what they did. But but but isn't that the same concept? It's it's questioning a country's sovereignty because of um because they because they have different values. Now that that wasn't the reason for World War II, but I I as an example, like I'm I'm using this as a hypothetical to just understand the principle. The Holocaust is happening. If international law had existed at the time, it could have raised the alarm bells and put pressure on Nazi Germany sooner to do something about it, and it also could have incentivized countries to join sooner to do something about it. Uh, so you're saying having an international court see that and raise the alarm bells and try to do something about it is bad, but if a country that wants to invade, that's perfectly fine. I'm not I'm not that doesn't seem like a consistent position. How is that a consistent? Because you're saying it, you're saying it's against the country's sovereignty, but so is invading that country.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:15

No, no. What I am against here is that every country has the power to assert sovereignty. Yes. What that means is if Germany, which in the case in this case was the aggressor in the war, they invaded Poland, they invaded France, and they asserted. Let's say they eliminated the sovereignty of this country.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

Let's just say they were. Um, I I want to use a hype. Sometimes a hypothetical just helps uh identify one's position and and how consistent it is. Put put the invasion aside. Let's just say Jews are being round up and put into camps. Okay. You're saying it's perfectly okay for a country to see this, understand it to be wrong, and invade, but it's not okay for uh the ICC to say this is illegal, you know, of an arrest warrant, like you need to stop this or X, Y, Z.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:05

No, the issue is not whether it's good or bad, that there's a person in the other side of the world saying that it's good or bad. The issue is what does that imply? If I am a guy in New York saying, and I have, I don't know, I some guy gave me like 20 countries gave me authority to decide things, and I say, Well, your country is doing bad things. There can be the terror, the worst things that ever happened in the in the history of humanity. But I am some random guy in the other side of the world with no real executive power, with no election, with no connection to that society. And I say, Well, now because I think what's going on there is bad, I have all the power in the world to decide to destroy your system, your country, your government, whatever it is. What I think should be existing is obviously if something is going that going that goes on in a country is bad, there can be a coalition of countries that try to stop it. That's something that is clearly inhumane, like the Holocaust.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

I don't see, I don't see how I don't see how that's any different, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:15

No, it is different having an because the international law in having an international court is more insidious.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

Well, but it's permanent, and it creates a world government in the long term. You're saying it's insidious, but you're not proving it's insidious, right? So generally, generally, countries uh don't invade countries for humanitarian reasons, they do so for their own their own interests, their own geo geopolitical or political interests. Having an international court can be uh a neutral system that, irregardless of your geopolitical considerations, can look at situations going on in the world, raise the alarm bells, and try to do something about it, whether or not a country decides to invade or not. It seems like certainly uh many steps above what you're suggesting that you should just hope that a country decides it's wrong and then they invade. Why not have a system in place to try to prevent it from happening in the first place? Because the system can be weaponized to eliminate the sovereignty of that country in the long run. It it could be, but you need to be giving concrete examples of how this is actually causing far more harm than good. System doesn't need to be perfect to very clearly be net positive. We're not seeing the ICC take over countries.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:27

Again, like the case of the ICT ICC in Russia, I think it was used specifically on that time frame to not not because they knew for sure they were actually kidnapping the children permanently and resettling somewhere in Russia, it's because they thought, oh, we can use this as an attack against Russia to continue to corner the country in the middle of the war.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:52

No, no, again, again. So, well, first of all, I am seeing that uh some of the children that were taken were also then conscripted into the Russian army, right? So that's clearly problematic. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:06

Sure, but that's a different problem. That's not until we're kidnapping. That's an army takes over a country.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:11

It's possible that that was part of where the ruling came from. But let's I'll even give it to you. Let's say the situation with Russia was purely political and what Russia did wasn't wrong. Okay, let's just assume that on its own does not mean international law is bad and the ICC should be dismantled when the ICC has made rulings on dozens of countries and issued arrest warrants on dozens of people, almost all of whom were war criminals. Like, why is that a bad thing? Why why is it a bad thing to create uh an incentive against committing war crimes? Like, this is part of moral progress. And so I I this is just one example, but this whole conversation started when I said Zionism kind of made uh turn Jews into a people who fight for moral regression, not moral progress. And I think this is an example because my sense is if the ICC was pro-Israel, you wouldn't have much of an issue with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:08

Because your main your main thing I still am against the ICC independently. I've been against it much before October 7th.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

I I'll I've been against the ICC with Russia. That was my actually my main concern initially when this case came up in 2022. So I'm not mistaken, it was 22 to 23. Was before October 7.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:29

Again, I don't think one example where you think that the ICC made a mistake is enough to uh end international law and dis dismantle the um I'm giving you an example.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:39

No, I'm not correct saying this is the point that I'm making. I'm giving the example that this is one of my points generally, that it's not just because these are all bad and whatever.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:49

Yeah, but you're you can only point to one example out of dozens, right? So it's not it's not compelling that you and you still haven't pointed to it taking over a country's sovereignty. You had it um, you pointed to them what you believe to be the uh misapplication of international law to issue an arrest warrant against somebody who actually is a war criminal, or at the at the very at the very least, c uh led to the deaths of nearly a million people. That's not that's not something to cry over, even if it was a misapplication. The fact that there's an arrest warrant against Putin is not really something to cry over.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:28

Who in Israel has been has had I know BB has an arrest warrant. Who else does?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:35

BB and uh uh Galant, the general. Oh uh and why him well, he was just leading uh a lot of the policy in Gaza and stuff, you know. But yeah, my I'll tell you, I'll tell you, there should be there definitely should be an arrest warrant against Ben Gvir as well, because he oversaw uh systematic torture in Israeli prisons. So he's one of the worst war criminals, Ben Gvir. And Smutrich is also somewhat a lot of the settler violence is also connected to Smutrich. So, you know, uh, and then there's a fair bit of commanders that should also be tried um for allowing uh sheer recklessness of their units.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:19

Yeah, but my discussion was good yesterday. Adam was there, uh Pop Corner was there, some of the other people in the audience were there. It was really good.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:30

Cool, but uh you didn't want me to join, huh? Because I bet you said some stuff that uh I would disagree with.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:37

No, man, no, I wanted you to join. No, I hope you hear me.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:42

Yeah, yeah, we hear you. Uh Anthony's sharing some stuff now. Sorry, I my thing collapsed. I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_08 1:21:48

I hope I wasn't, I will I was not trying to be rude. You were more than welcome to join. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:53

I wasn't no, no, no, I didn't I didn't take it personally. Just for some context. Um so by the way, every day we do our uh team calls, right? We have a head-on team call every day at 8:30 p.m. Jerusalem time, 1.30 p.m. Eastern time. We do it here on the head-on platform and we do it for the public. So we run this company fully transparent, right? Anybody can join our team calls and tune in. So Anthony joined yesterday, and then he was telling us how he's hosting a session an hour. He's like, You guys can come. He's like, and Adara, I I I guess you can join as well. It was the most half-hearted invite I I've ever gotten.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:31

So I was uh I'm sorry, I didn't mean it that way. I'm sorry, I was doing something else, and I was just like don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:37

No worries, no hurt feelings. Um, I hope it went well.

SPEAKER_09 1:22:42

Um I'm making it a series, you're more than welcome to join the next one.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:46

Sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:48

Um Adar. Yeah. Um, I I know we got diversion to the international law, but that's a more long, that's a longer conversation to so you can understand really why I think about it. But I really have a question. Yeah, and I wanted to talk a little bit since it's more relevant about the Israeli pop elections, since you were talking about the parties you will vote for. Um in this case, you said you will vote for standing together, which is uh the the one state the one state solution party, correct?

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

Uh are they one state solution party? I'm not sure. Um, what is their platform? Uh uh the the reason I said they're most value aligned with myself, I I actually, you know, I haven't even read their platform, so that's probably on me, but it's more so because they're coming from the organization standing together, which I have tremendous respect for. Uh you know, I generally I'm value aligned with them more so than I am with the Democrats. So um by default, I uh you know, they would have my vote if they are relevant to um to passing the threshold. So let's see. The political platform of Komikulanu, a place for us all, centers on replacing the current governing coalition and advancing a radical radical shift towards shared Jewish Arab future built on equality, peace, and social justice. The core pillars of the platform include genuine shared leadership. Unlike traditionalist political parties that cater predominantly to either Jewish or Arab demographics, the party mandates a strict 50-50 split. Their leadership messaging, decision-making, and electoral slate are entirely shared, split evenly amongst Jews and Arabs, and as well between men and women. They campaign heavily on ending the occupation, halting the military status quo, and reaching a comprehensive peace agreement that guarantees freedom, security, and independence for both people. They advocate for absolute civil rights, fighting systemic racism, and ensuring that Arab citizens of Israel receive equal funding, resources, and civic representation, a massive focus. No, so they're not explicitly endorsing one state. Um that's that's what the end plan is, though. Uh it's possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:07

I'm not sure. But we're so far from that. Based on on based on their on their platform, that's it seems to be that's what they want in the in the end. Because Israel proper is now 50-50% Arab.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:19

So why would they make it it's it's a good question, right? If they're talking about 50 50-50 in um in Israel proper, they want Arabs to have uh a disproportionate voice. And I imagine they justify it simply by uh they've been voiceless for so long, they've never actually been part of government aside from one government. It's a place to really, it's a way to really have their voice heard. Uh, it's a population that needs to be heard more. That's probably how they justify it. I more so would like something that they would be equally represented for their population size. It seems like a better way to do it. Um, no, Makom Nakulano and Standing Gather Movement do not support a traditional one state. Instead, they they officially endorse a two-state confederation framework. Okay, I'm I I like that. I'm I'm a big federation or confederation guy. So, you know, and I and I don't think that a 50-50 representation in uh in government is is a problem, at least in the short term. Long term, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for a minority group to have higher representation than their share, but in the short term to correct imbalance, I think it could be okay. Hold on one second, it's just getting dark.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

I personally believe and I I I know you can imagine which party I will vote for in this role. Yeah, you would vote for um you would vote for Smuttric or something. Or Bennett. No, no, I wouldn't neither. No, definitely not Bennett. What Isencott? But I wouldn't go for neither. No, Isenko is a very well-trained dog of the establishment, so I wouldn't vote for Isencott. It's only pretty much you know that he changed his name. You're a Lieberman guy. No, absolutely not either. Never. I can't believe you can read me. What Ben Game? No, no, no, no. Ben Gabri is uh is a little too much. I like Ben Gabriel. He's a nice party, he has a nice party. There are definitely nice people on both sides. Um, but I'm not I I wouldn't vote for him. I think he's not qualified to be prime minister.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:30

Bro, the only two people left don't make sense for you to vote for would be Lapide and Gantz. Wait, am I missing something?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:37

No, I will vote for Shas.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:40

Oh, I'm so stupid. I forgot that you're religious.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:44

Yeah, you know Shas, but you know I am religious.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:47

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:48

Yeah, yeah. But I I wouldn't vote for United Turtleism because they are part of the Agudat Israel.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:55

Is Shastra. Wait, wait, correct me if I'm wrong. Shas, are they mixed Ishkinaziz? Or let's no, it's Sephardic only. Is it Sephardic? Okay, so that should have been the giveaway. That should have been the dead giveaway. That you're shocked.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:09

I personally think uh they are a bit corrupt, you know, like some of the leadership are a bit corrupt. But uh there has to be a there has to be a balance in Israel, and I think Chaz has to put a balance. And Chass is not Chass is very amendable, it's a amendable party. They will they will be more willing to do coalitions with more people than like you the UTJ, the United Argumentation Party, which is Ashkenazi. I actually and they are uh much more extreme.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:37

I know secular Jews that vote for them because they're good on uh supposedly good on like uh welfare for the poor. Like that's one of their main things, helping poor people.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:52

Well, who are who is the poor people in Israel?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:56

Uh ultra-Orthodox and the majority. Ultra Orthodox and some Palestinian populations, and probably some some Mizrachim in the peripheries as well, are probably not doing well. Who would also be religious?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:11

I wouldn't say it's a I don't say it's that's a small percentage. That's a big percentage of the population. I don't know if you when was the last time you went to Sidderot, but it definitely needs more investment from the state. I I mean they have invested more, but they definitely need more investment. Where what place are you talking about specifically?

SPEAKER_02 1:29:33

Cedrot. Oh yeah, I mean it's hard to vote in this place. It's hard to care about poor people when you're fighting wars all the time. So I definitely am all for less wars, more help for poor people, without a doubt. Investing.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:48

And I will vote for Shas, it's a good counterbalance. I will certainly never vote for a party that promotes uh a non-Jewish state or non-Jewish majority, as you can imagine, obviously. Um, but I think I think the Democrats and Standing Together are not good organizations, as you can also imagine. Sort of annoying me.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:13

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not I'm not surprised. They um, you know, why would a right winger support a left-wing organization? So it's not surprising.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:23

Look, if I was in in 1948, I would have been a labor Zionist and still be religious. I don't mind, I don't personally care much about what they believe economically or any of these things. My main issue is whether or not they're nationalists and they actually care for the population of Israel.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:42

Well, the Democrats are a Zionist party, so I'm not sure they should be quote unquote. They're self-described as a Zionist party, they're they're run by like um a military man. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:58

Well, that's the first issue, and the second issue is that then the Democrats have uh they are overrepresented in Israeli politics, like the the liberal elite of Israel, if you will, if you want to call it that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:13

The liberal elite have control of the Supreme Court. I would say the white elite, the Ashkenazi elite. I don't know if they're liberal, maybe maybe for an Israeli standard, perhaps, but they're not overrepresented in government, they haven't been for years. Netanyahu's government is far right. No, no, not government, but the bureaucracy more specifically.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:32

Yeah, they're not the judiciary, yeah, the government offices, the judiciary, yeah, government offices.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:39

Uh, you but you're talking about Israeli left, which I want people to understand that when Alfred is saying liberal elites in a global standard, people would be considered right-wingers. Um, the Israeli left.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:51

Well, I mean, they're liberal still, just because they're ultra-nationalists doesn't make them not so. No, I don't even marriage.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:58

So it depends what we're talking about. If if we talk about so let's say social issues, economics, then sure. If we talk about Israel-Palestine, the left in Israel, when it comes to Israel-Palestine, globally they would be considered right. Just so people understand how the spectrum works. But on social issues, on economic issues, that is true. They are, yeah. They are left.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:25

On the actual politics, deprived of domestic and or like nationalistic view of things, they are by for all intents and purposes left and liberal. Um and obviously opposed that also for Israel. Yeah, I guess. And I think Israel should be all liberal Zionists. Sure, yeah. Israel should be ran by people who care for the country.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:56

Yeah, I just don't think. Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:06

Do they really? Yeah, for sure. The second, the second somebody that's right wing, or a sephardic, god forbid, becomes something in Israel, this that that's when that's it. That's when they decide that they need to move to Italy.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:20

I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:25

Like a Sephardic prime minister, never in Israel. Let's leave.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:28

No, yeah, that that's true, and that's why it's funny that the only reason Bibi's in power is so much um Mizrahi support, you know. If the Mislachim didn't vote for Netanyahu, he wouldn't be in power. They should vote for one of their own. And it's not right to say one of your own because we're they're all we're all Israeli, so the tribalism's probably not good. But and you don't have too much of it anymore. In the 70s and 80s, you did. From the 50s to the 70s, you did, but the country is in the Jews in the country are integrated quite well today. But I don't think any of the liberal elite are leaving because there's a Sephari or Mizrachi uh people in power. You have you do have great, you do have the liberal elites leaving because they're the country has gone so far to the right, they don't want to be part of Israeli society. But it has it's not a racial issue, it's an ideological issue.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:20

Israel is experiencing. I wouldn't say it's uh purely a racial issue, like to say. However, uh I'm I was making that joke, like, oh, have God forbid a Sephardic ever takes over. But the reality is that the liberal elites they don't understand something about Sephardim. Sephardim. They see they they think why they vote for Vivi? Why do they vote for Likut? Why do they vote for these parties or Shah's even though they're secular? Why don't they just become communists and love and move to a kibbutz? Um, like you will guess. Well, I don't know, maybe because they are more traditional or whatnot. The truth is, when Menachem Begin went up the stage in 1978 and said that there's no difference between Sefaradim or Ashkenazim that they all were all Jews, that is really what changed uh the perspective of the people. Because the elites are obsessed with this idea of let's this let's separate the Jew and the Torah, let's separate uh the the like our history from Israel. They they take the share pick what parts of history they find convenient, but then eliminate everything else that makes that Jewish identity and that makes us a united people that they don't like. They wanted to make it an Ashkenazi secular society, and that obviously did not work. Well, what and so the cult has won consistently since 1978 because people discover that maybe we don't need to just follow these crazy policies that we don't like.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:55

Well, the the founding vision of the country was not an identity around the Jewish religion, it was an identity around people who are ethnically Jewish where they can be safe and self-determined. So, if anything, it's closer to the founding vision.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:15

Well, really, I don't think the founding vision is not a issue is the issue is that the I don't think the founding vision needs to remain.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:21

I'm just saying it's not like these Ashkenazis came and tried to hijack what Israel was. They were actually No, no, I love Ashkazim.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:29

But the we all love Ashkenazim, there's no difference. They're all we're all Jews. But the the really the the issue is isn't the substance of that foundation. The substance of the foundation was not as you described, that's a myth. That oh, we need to have a country for Jews and uh all ethnic Jews can live in it. That's not that's a myth. And you can if you really any of the Zionist found like thinkers that ended up found in Israel, what they really care about was not Jewish identity or Jewish national or the Jewish national whole. All they care about was anti-Semitism and the fact that they couldn't be secular people in the West, and they couldn't ever be accepted as non nothing else but Jewish. And that was bothering them. And so they decided, well, let's let's just create a country where we can be Westerners, but we happen to be Jewish, so the work countries had to be Jewish. That was the substance of the creation of Israel in the opinion of many of the political scientists. Of course, that was not the opinion of the Sephardim, who were already like had their like their own thinking, uh thinkers on the process of moving to Israel, like like the Benish Hai, for example, was pushing to for Aliyah into Israel, or um Rab Alkali, Rabbi'hud Al-Kalai was very famous, well known to be the teacher, the rabbi of Herzl's grandfather, for example, Rabbi Al-Kalai. He he was the one who said we need to have Hebrew return, we need to move in mass to the land of Israel. In fact, he in 1939 famously said, if in 100 years from now we don't return to the land of Israel in mass, then there will be a great catastrophe for the Jews, and it will be much harder. The great hardship will come afterward. And what happened 100 years later, the Holocaust and all the wars that came with Israel and all this stuff. I'm not I'm not mystic, I'm just saying what he said in 1839. And these ideas already existed previous to the political Zionism. That and the political Zionism just simply eliminated the part of the Jews are in the land of Israel, not because anti-senate anti-Semitism. We're in the land of Israel because that's our land that we live. We're from there, which can just return whenever we want to. And this is our national homeland. We don't need to be living in the land of Iraq, we don't need to live in Europe, we don't need to be Europeans, we're not Europeans, we're not Indo-Europeans, and that is the problem that I have with the so-called liberal science, and that's why they're leaving Israel. Because the moment and the second the country actually becomes Jewish, and not just in like name and in flag, but in actually becoming Jewish, they decide to leave and move to Italy, back to Italy, back to the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:29

Yeah, which is very much they're right. If if the foundation was a place where we could be safe uh and self-determined, but then it's we we start to be ruled by madmen who don't have capacity to keep us safe, and the values of the country change in ways that are illiberal. Why not go to a place where you can ultimately be safer and be more represented by your values? There's nothing wrong with that. Just unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 1:39:53

Look, they can migrate all they want. It's just that you know they can't come claim that then they are the one the ones like who actually should rule Israel if they don't even care that about the country that much. As long as as far as if I want look, religious people under the rule for almost 80 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:12

You can't say then they shouldn't rule. Like you can't put all who you describe as liberal elite in one category. Those who leave the country are no longer trying to rule or have much influence. Those who left the country, stayed in the country, still have as much right to rule and uh contribute as much as they want. But it, you know, Israel experiencing brain drain and a shift to the right and a shift to the ultra-orthodox uh should make us question ultra-orthodox, religious, religious and primarily or ultra-orthodox.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:48

Ultra-orthodox is not doesn't exist. That's not a real term.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:53

Um it's it's a category we use to describe a certain segment of the population.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:00

So for In English, it's the author, just say hi to D.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:05

Okay, but that's that's literally what what we mean when we say ultra-orthodox. What why what's what's the issue? No, but what's the issue with that term?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:14

Ultra orthodox means like, oh, these people are extreme, they are ultra this. Imagine if I call you the ultra-liberal every single time I try to describe your community.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:24

Um, you know what? I can accept I can accept that as legitimate feedback that it's not the best. Uh okay, there could be a negative connotation that comes with ultra-orthodox, but so it is a real category of people. You just reject the use of that term. You think call them Kharidi? Fair. Um, but the Kharidi pop, it it's becoming more Kharidi than it's becoming just religious, right? They're growing much faster than Jewish.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:48

The people who do that were putting her in, by the way. The the frumka. It's called frumka, by the way. No burqa. It's called the frumka because they're making the the burqa from joke, I guess. Frum it means religious in Jiddish. So that people were putting hair. They're not accepting the mainstream so-called ultra-orthodox world either. They were putting like the harem means uh yeah. What do you think about those burkas? The frumka is not allowed by anyone besides this cult. They were again, they were putting harem. Harem, uh, how do you say that? Is um harem, they were um uh outcast. They were outcast. No, no, because there's a specific word uh excommunicated, excommunicated, they were excommunicated from the Jewish religious world by everyone because that's just not allowed, that's not in the Torah, it's not in Talmud, it's nowhere. In fact, the Talmud says that you shouldn't be like this, that you shouldn't do this. So it's obviously like going against our tradition. So we put these people in harem as a cult.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:55

I kind of like the tilumi look where they kind of have the head wrap and their hair is still showing a lot. That's that's my favorite. That's fine. That's the opinion the majority of is that is that Sunua if you're meant to cover your hair, but you still see most of it, and then it's just style. It's an interesting one. But I'll tell you what the the the pais like that's I mean, I'm not gonna judge if you want to have pace, it just looks funny. And I don't that the tour doesn't say you need payus, it just says you can't cut above the bone, right? But you now we have full generations, it's not just it's not just they they have a different word. So the curly ones, let's give some people context. So you have pais, which are the curls, but now you'll see, and this kind of started in the settler movement, they're not curls, they're just flat. And this is becoming more popular in places within Israel proper, not only uh the West Bank. So you do see you are seeing flat payas, even here in the Galilee. I see more and more of them. Little kids who just have these. Um the word they had they have a different word, uh, they call them uh gozambot, which is a funny word. Now, it's funny what it symbolizes because the the the paest get curled, they curl them with their finger when they're studying. They literally twirl it while they're studying, and it just gets this nice curl over time. The ones who have the flat ones are less people of the book, and they're more they work the land more so. They're not in the classroom all day curling, they're working the land, and then they get flat. Um, they're not even aware, I don't even think they're aware of the cultural difference in like how that came to be. But if you actually think about it, that's one of the explanations. But it's a pretty funny, it it's it's funny and it's not written in the Torah.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:54

So I'm not I'm not a such a well the the the issue is it looks the Torah says to keep the peyot, but doesn't obviously the style no you can't cut the corner of the peyot.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:09

The corners it don't don't cut above this bone, don't shave above this bone. So you just have a side burner. Well if you have a beer.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:16

It says it says it says to not uh to not cut below the bone, meaning the beer. Sorry. Not to cut the corner that goes above the bone. The corner will be the above the bone because the the if the beer is the is the is the bone, then that's the latest, the the the low the lowest corner of the hair. So that section up here shouldn't be cut either. Now the peyot is a style, it's a cultural style. You don't need to have a peyote. It's it's like different cultures developed this actually independently. And like the Emonites had it completely independent from the Ashkenazim who developed it in Europe. And similar to you had Turkish Jews who had it in Morocco, you had a different style where people will put it around their ears. Like the peyote, like the growing the corners was a common occurrence amongst Jewish groups separately, meaning that you don't need to have there has to be you don't you don't have payus, right? You don't have payot. I do not personally have no. Yeah, okay. I still I have thinking been thinking on having them, but uh I have I don't think he will look at what it means.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:23

You know what? You know what the new style I see in the north a lot? You see a lot of uh kids with the tzitzit, tzitzit, which people don't know that's like the the strings that come out from under your shirt, but they don't have a kipa, they don't wear a kipa, a yarmulka, but they have the tzit. Supposedly it's like a style that developed after October 7th. A lot of more secular people put it on to show. I think that's just arsim. They are generally arsim, and ars for those it would be like the equivalent of a guido. US, especially on the east coast, you have guidos, which is like an Italian, you know. Uh, so arsim would be our equivalent of that. Um no one who's ours knows they're an ox, though. That's an interesting, it's interesting how that works. Anyways, we do have 30 minutes left, so I I want to get back to some questions and also give Anthony a little bit more time. Uh, but I appreciate uh you coming on, Altoids, and what you've shared. Anything you want to leave us with?

SPEAKER_00 1:47:22

Um, yeah, sure. That the reason why you think payotes are ugly is because you grew up without it, and you grew up CNS another group, but we think it to be a very beautiful thing. The women like it in the religious world, the men like it. It's very good. We think it's a very nice haircut, and I personally think it's a very nice haircut. Look, it's and it's a question of culture.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:47

It's true that it is true that a lot of it is culturally dependent, but most of my family are religious and have have paists, so it's not new to me. It's just there is a certain objectivity to beauty. Um let's think how you how we describe this. So not all animals are equally beautiful for whatever reason or another, and ones that have random patches of hair on them are generally considered less less attractive. It it it's it could even be signaling something of uh like ball, and and it's more so when you have a bald head in the piss, it's it's worse. It you could be signaling something biological. It there's something sickly about it when you're bald with patches. Um, so I don't think it's purely something subjective and cultural. Uh, I think there's something beyond there, but sure, if you grow up in that community, you'll think it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:48

Now the issue you to remember is supposed to be useful.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:52

Look, also with this, what Maxim just shared, this this just ain't like this is not the most beautiful haircut, and it's not look, we a lot of cultures do it. Like the mullet is not the best haircut, although there's I've I've seen a sexy mullet before, but you know, like when you have a bald hair and just a patch coming out, it's not the best. That's why I shave because then I would have bald hair and just on the sides, you know. So there's there's uh some minor objective measure, but I do agree it's it's largely cultural dependent. Um, but most of my a lot of my family has them. They have the gozamboth because they're settlers. I do have I you know my grandpa grew up in Mash Sharim, so he had the the tight ones. I have a lot of family in Brooklyn that are uh Kharis, so they have the curls, but the settler ones all have the the gozambot. Um but yeah, I mean uh I'm not uh I made a remark because I do think it's funny, especially because it's not necessary, it's it's not something you need to follow in order to be Jewish. Um But you know, I don't judge. You know, I I've I have people in my many people in my life who have them. Sometimes when I want to pick on them, I'll pull them, you know. You pick them up by the the pais if they're bothering you. It's a joke for those who are potentially offended. Anyways, thank you, Altoids. Um thank you. We'll talk more soon. Uh let's see if there's any questions on Anthony. I'll go to you. Levy points out that the second place in the Democrats is a traditional Mizaki woman named Nama Lazimi. That's a good point. And then so uh Altoy, just so you know, Zohar's pointing out, you said you've made a factual mistake about Likud winning since 78. That is true that they haven't been winning since 78. They've been winning uh since Ulmert, right? So since 2008, they've been in power consistently, and they've been on and off. They've had occasional wins since 78, but not primarily.

SPEAKER_09 1:51:08

Um yeah, so I was gonna say I was letting you guys talk. I didn't want to interrupt. So yeah, the discussion yesterday was really good. Um it was basically I I sort of wrote like well, I didn't write it. I wrote like a Google Doc, and I basically had my notes on there, and I was just uh saying, like, hey, this is my perspective, you know. I may actually share it with you. So I basically said that let me look up my what it what I said on the Google. It basically it helped me keep track of what I was saying. Um, so what I basically said that I basically said, hey, this conflict has been going on since like 1948. It entered its next uh new deadly face starting October 7th. I basically said that one of the things I find, obviously, this community, you don't see it because this community is amazing. By the way, Adar, thank you so much for creating this.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:11

Thank you. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:13

Um, I said that basically I find that there's an often a lack of nuanced discussions online from both sides of this. And I and I and I basically said that the people involved, a lot of the people involved in this often use harsh, demeaning, and insulting language to describe the other side. And I gave examples like Zionists or the new Nazis, or all Palestinians are terrorists, etc., etc. And I basically said that in my view as a Christian, that like in the Judeo-Christian tradition, how we use our words towards each other's matters. And I basically gave verses like from the Old and New Testament saying, hey, you know, you're not like one of them is from James 1, 19 through 20, everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to become angry because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. And I basically was going through about how I don't like as a Christian, I value all life in this conflict, and I don't like seeing anyone die. And I don't think we I don't like the numbers game personally because I think it lessens how special and valuable every person who's died in this conflict is. We should be sad at every life that's lost, and that we should try to find a solution that doesn't lead to any more loss of life or any desire for vengeance, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:53:41

Amen. You're what you're one of those Jesus Christ Christians, those are my favorite type. What do you mean? There's kind of this contradiction that American conservatism is very Christian, but they often don't espouse Christianity.

SPEAKER_09 1:53:55

Oh, I agree with that. I agree with that. I am vocal about that, so don't get me started on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:01

Yeah, exactly. So I would I was just recognizing that you are not in that, very clearly not in that camp, you know. So I wanted to make it clear.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:08

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:54:09

Like that the what you're saying is was the was the teachings of Jesus Christ, as opposed to what many American Christians uh preach.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:17

Yeah, and I basically went and said that there were false narratives that I often hear. Um, the first is the idea that Jews are not natives to the lands of Israel. The earliest reference to the name Israel is from Egyptian stele dated from the year 1207 BC. So Jews or Israelis, whatever you want, the Hebrews, Israelites have been in there for a very long time. Um I also talked about how uh I also said I gave an article talking about how we have genetic evidence that modern-day Jews, regardless of their Ashkenazi, Shephardic, or Mithra'i, are all have their genetic origin in Levant and share common ancestry with Palestinian Arabs. Um I talked about also a little bit that before 1896, there were people like Nekamonides in the 1200s who talked about uh he basically was from Spain, he was a rabbi, and he immigrated to Jerusalem and actually worked to re-establish a Jewish community in the old city. And the first Ashkenazi families began returning to Palestine as early as the 1600s. So I was basically um and also like for me, Zionism is so vague because different people have different definitions of what it is. So it I'm neither a Zionist nor an anti-Zionist. Um, I am not a Christian Zionist by any way, shape, or form because I feel like that's just uh that's a very new idea, and I think it actually has anti-Semitic tendencies in it. Um, I also went over and talked about thoughtful Palestinian Christians who have very nuanced and thoughtful perspectives. I think I told you by a guy by the early a few days, I think last week about a guy named Farz Abraham. Um I think I gave him his YouTube channel link too, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:18

Okay, I don't recall, but perhaps you could drop it, you could drop it in chat.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:27

But um comment, you know, I think the rejection that that Jews come from the land, it's it doesn't come from nowhere. It's not that it's not that people are actually making it it's there's a political reason for it. It's because one of the one of the justifications for Zionism is we come from this land, therefore we should rule the land, right? So so Zionism makes an affirmative claim that because we come here, we are the rulers of the land, we are the sovereign of the land. And then I think the more legitimate rejection is even if you come from a land doesn't mean you get sole sovereignty over a land. That's not a legitimate position to hold. Uh but what people do because it's easier is rejecting it. So they're saying, no, you're European. Either they're saying either you're and people genuinely believe it, they're saying you're Kazars, you're all a bunch of converts, you never you have no connection in the land, or they're saying, okay, you have ancestry from the land 2,000 years ago, that doesn't mean you can come back to the land now. No, I get what you're saying, but I feel like it's our theory's been disproven, but the the position saying having connection in the land does not give you rights to be fully sovereign on the land is perfectly legitimate, right? So most of the rejection comes from that place.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:54

No, I get what you're saying. It's just I I feel like so many in the pro-Palestinian camp like the Khazar theory and stuff, and and that's just being dishonest, in my opinion, to just say, oh, we're missing Jews or Europe.

SPEAKER_02 1:58:08

I I think I think a lot of people are there. So Jews from that area do have Khazar DNA. In fact, who do we have? We have uh is Al still here? Yeah, Al Al's here. Al, you might be partially Khazar. I don't know if you've got gotten a DNA test, but Al is a community member who's from that a Jew from that region, so he might be Khazar. And that's pretty badass. I I wish I was part Khazar. They're like uh Warrior Mountain people, you know. Like think uh think Dagestan, like think of all the Dagestani uh MMA fighters. So the Khazars would be the the Jewish version of that. You're Bukharian, uh close enough, no. Okay, maybe not. Yeah, it's just Bukharia, Bukharia Uzbekistan, if I remember.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:01

Yeah, uh Alice talked about that. Yeah, which is but it's just it just seems to me to be dishonest to say, or not dishonest, but maybe misinformed for people to claim that Jews aren't native to the land of Palestine or Israel, whatever you want to call it. But then also, like, this is another thing I I I don't like from the pro-pal, and again, I see on the some of the Israeli side, I'm not trying to pick on one side, I don't want people coming after me. What I am saying though is like I I find the use of rhetoric, especially harsh rhetoric and harsh words, to be very to be unhelpful and and and dehumanizing on either side, and I don't think that's right for like like I and I gave examples like people saying Zionists are the new Nazis or that Israel all Jews are evil or Palestinians are all terrorists or stuff, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:59:56

Yeah, yeah, uh for sure, for sure. I I appreciate your perspective. So I don't even think I would have objected much to your presentation.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:04

Uh what well, I also talked about how I I feel like that that part of the issue is like for one thing, I I maybe I I guess could push back is so you know how people use the term colonialism or settler colonialism or whatever that is, you know? Yeah, I often find those terms, and again, I'm not objecting to those terms in principle. I I do believe that those terms are real and that they obviously describe like real actions like that we saw in the US or in Africa and other parts of the world. But I feel like it sometimes creates a dehumanization of people because it essentially puts people in the categories. Like you've talked a little bit about the quote unquote woke thing, where there's like if you don't know what it is, and again, I I feel like the far right has you taken that term woke and misused it, but like the idea that there's certain like there's this thing called intersectionality where there's like oppressed oppressor, um you know, men versus women, whites versus blacks, and stuff. And I'm not saying that like, oh, there's never been a type of an oppression on certain groups, but I think there's a way of going about it, like MLK. MLK was a used identity politics, but it was common humanity identity politics. You know, he used his Christian faith as a way to say, no, we're gonna bring everyone together, regardless of race, ethnicity, etc.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:40

MLK had he been alive and had he held the same position he had when he was alive, he would be anti anti-woke, without a doubt. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, think about it. Uh, I have a dream. I don't if I botched this, it'd be embarrassing. I have a dream that my children by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Whereas woke says the color of your skin is one of the single most important things about you, and you should treat people differently depending on their skin color.

SPEAKER_09 2:02:11

Is it so stupid?

SPEAKER_02 2:02:13

Yeah, it's antithetical.

SPEAKER_09 2:02:15

Like my pastor, my pastor is actually African American, and he's not a fan of that. So it's funny, a lot of that a lot of that stuff comes from white liberals, and again, I'm I'm a social democrat. I am actually a big fan of Bernie Sanders. Um, I don't agree with him on everything, but I I I think he's the closest to where I'm at politically. Um I I I but I find the ridiculousness of this idea, like, and again, I don't I know you're maybe not intentionally using it, but do you think that reducing people to colonial or settled colonial? And this is a thing I have with some leftists, is that maybe it's because they're coming from a secular perspective, is they often they use language that, in my opinion, dehumanizes people.

SPEAKER_02 2:03:06

So Zionism is an example of settler colonialism, right? If you look at the example of the definition of settler colonialism and then what Zionism has been in practice, it neatly fits that definition. Now, I don't I generally am much more loose and comfortable using uh demonizing language for systems and institutions and not people, right? So I don't call Israelis colonizers, but I do call Zionism a settler colonial uh system because that's what it's been in practice. Now, where there where I think it's legitimate to say that people often confuse the two, right? So if you harshly criticize Israel, that ultimately does lead to dehumanization of Israelis. That is true, but the alternative is to you know not strongly criticize uh institutions, we have to. So I'm not I don't know what that's not what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_09 2:04:09

I think we should criticize a government like I'm an American, but I criticize my own government all the time. But I'm saying is that there's a way of going about it that doesn't lead to dehumanization.

SPEAKER_02 2:04:22

But if if I if I simply say uh Zionism is a form of settler colonialism, that's true. Uh, but you could say, well, when you call Zionism settler colonialism, it gives people the thought that Israelis are colonizers is dehumanizing, and the thing you do with colonizers is you get rid of them. So ultimately it leads to more people supporting ethnically cleansing Jews from the land. I think, I think that is an argument that could be made. It's a defensible argument. But if I were to then not use settler colonialism and said Israel is engaging in the in the intentional uh displacement and ethnic cleansing, uh or let me use even softer language, Israel is attempting to uh displace the Palestinians and replace them, that too will lead to people feeling a certain way about Israelis. Well, those are the fundamental difference between the two ways I described it and how much it will cost to dehumanization.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:22

Well, I don't think that's dehumanization. What I mean is it's like I think that there are people out there who are crazies that, like, for example, we know that most sane people, most sane, like school shooters, for example, those people obviously have mental illnesses and don't, they're not, they're not in their right minds. There will always be crazy people out there who, for whatever reason, have like anti-Semitism, in my view, is irrational. They believe they associate their problems and blame all Jews for it. Like, for example, people who example who say, Oh my gosh, uh, I had a bad day because a Hispanic person mugged me, therefore, all Hispanic people were bad. That's an irrational, uh, not an irrational belief to think, oh my gosh, I have this one bad experience, therefore, all people of this ethnicity or whatever are bad, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:21

Yeah, you what I mean? Yeah, yeah. It's it's irrational, but that's we we need to we need to grapple with reality that people are irrational, right?

SPEAKER_09 2:06:30

Like that's yeah, everyone is irrational. Let's be honest with that.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:34

Yeah, I don't want to say everyone, but uh all like we need to understand that it's a very common human trait that the second you see one population be overrepresented in some behavior, you're generally going to attribute that to the whole. Or if you have a bad experience with someone of a certain population, it very well, very well may impact how you uh view the whole group. Uh, we should certainly uh resist this instinct. It and it it comes from a survival instinct, right? We used to live in a world where we had to clearly identify friend for friend versus foe, uh predator versus prey, right? We're we're uh good food versus poisonous food, right? We're very binary-minded for a reason, but we we don't need to live in that world anymore, right? We we have the privilege of nuance uh and and being able to think about things more rationally than we otherwise uh could have in the past, but it's still very much an instinct that that we all have. So we need to resist that instinct, but also recognize that it's pretty human to do that. Um yeah, like but we also just need to grapple with the fact that if a country does horrible things, um you should not dehumanize all the people of that country. But naturally, if you're if if you criticize, if a country is doing bad enough things, there will be some consequence to the people living in that country. And we've seen it in many ways across the board. Like even during even during COVID, there was an increase in anti-Asian hate because it came from China, right?

SPEAKER_09 2:08:07

So it's like Yeah, to blame, like to blame all Chinese people for the actions of the Chinese Communist Party is ridiculous. Um but I but yeah, like and basically what my discussion was going into was how Christians, the kind that I'm a part of, not the crazy ones, I want to make that clear. Jews and Muslims, we all can have an ability to try to help the situation in in Israel Palestine. Like, for example, I think uh Pope, you know Pope Leo, Pope Leo the 14th, yeah, the first American Pope. Yeah, I feel like he has been incredibly thoughtful because he has criticized both the some of the Israeli actions, but also has been really good at de demonizing and going after anti-Semitism. Like, there's this group that I really like called Catholics and Jews United Against Anti-Semitism. Um, and I feel like that someone like that, like the Pope, the Vatican, the other like Patriarch Bartholomew, who's the leader of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and there's a lot of Israeli uh Arabs that are Eastern Orthodox and Catholic and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:16

The past two popes have been pretty good, huh? Uh Benedict was questionable, but Francis and Leo, I think they're pretty good. They they they walked in the footsteps of Jesus, I think, for the most part. Aside from the fact that the amount of uh wealth that exists in the Vatican, uh it's definitely not quite in line with Jesus, but that's okay. Francis, at least, I if I recall correctly, he wouldn't sit on the podium, he would sit at the same level as everybody else.

SPEAKER_09 2:09:44

Yeah, he didn't live in the Vatican, actually. He lived in his summer home, a home that was very much different. But yeah, and then when you have those people, the the popes, like again, that it's kind of weird for them to. I don't know but how they would be able to help the like with Israel, and they obviously can't force Israel to do what they're doing. But like when you have different people of religious faiths, because that land is important to all three Abrahamic faiths. I think there we could that could be a very helpful way to try to not necessarily solve it, maybe, but try to help the situation out. And I think that from a religious perspective, um, I find, you know, and I know there's many thoughtful Christians I've met in my life, like Farse Abraham is one. Um the he's a Palestinian Christian, but he doesn't have any hate in his heart for Israelis at all. He actually has many uh different um uh Jewish Israeli Christian friends and Jewish Israeli Jewish friends, and he actually is really good friends with a uh Israeli settler who became a Christian, which is kind of funny. So it's really good to see things like that, and those things unfortunately don't get traction online.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:00

I I am seeing that Levi here is saying that France is covered up for pedophiles back in Argentina. Okay, well that's that's uh unacceptable. I didn't look into that claim, but uh yeah, yeah, I I think there's a pretty long history of uh it's coming back to me now that you mentioned it. There's uh you do have an issue with child abuse and then cover it being covered up.

SPEAKER_09 2:11:26

Yeah, it's not just in the Catholic Church, it's been it's been happening in every major organization, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:33

Yeah, I mean it kind of what if if you're looking for a man to agree to celibacy, well, some straight men may do that, but I feel like that's gonna by default create a higher concentration of pedophiles and and gay men. Um I you know, so it's something that needs to be dealt with, you know. Um right, because it it's it's not easy, you know. Most people are not gonna give up on having no, it isn't. No, exactly. But who's more willing? Okay, if you're a pedo, maybe it's easier to say, yeah, well, I don't want women anyways, and then I'll get to be with all the children. So you could see why there would be a higher concentration in such positions. Um, we gotta protect the children.

SPEAKER_09 2:12:25

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:27

But you also have the fact that um but disrelated to that, but like, do you think that then Adam was talking about this and we were actually I uh sorry Anthony, I I don't want to cut you off, but we have our team call right now, so I do need to I do need to end this. But so here's what we're gonna do. You you could you could either join the team call. Uh I will. So here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna end the live stream. Whoever wants to continue the conversation, on the on head on, you'll see there's a button on the bottom right that says coffee lounge. You click it, and then it's just another group discussion. So whoever's here, you're welcome to hop in the coffee lounge. I'm gonna drop a link for everyone on Discord. Uh sorry, see there, head on.ai. And then you could either join our team call and see what we're working on internally, or you could just join the coffee lounge and um and have your own conversation there, or you could create your own room. Uh, and we we want to hear feedback. If you run into a bug, let us know. If you have a feature idea, let us know. Uh Anthony, thanks for joining. Altoch, thanks for for joining. Everyone who submitted questions and comments, thank you for joining. Much love from the beautiful Galilee in the land of Israel and Palestine. Until next time, friends.